B3-How does Revit relate to Autocad and other drafting programs?-Mengnan Yang

The Revit is a very new software to me. Firstly, I want to write about my personal use feeling about the differences between the Revit, AutoCAD and the Sketch Up which are the three-popular draft software in the industry.

For my feeling, the Revit will be more intelligent than the AutoCAD and the Sketch Up. It will be very easy to make changes in the Revit. For example, when we make the format of the drawing sets, in the Revit, we only need to set a family file and make changes in the family file, and the changes will be applied to every drawing. But in the AutoCAD, we need to use blog or the X-drive to do the same thing. Sometimes, we need to enter by hand one by one to make changes. And when we want to insert a table to the drawing, the Revit needs have the table function, but the AutoCAD needs to enter manually.

Another difference for me is the rendering. The Revit has the inside rendering function. It will be easy to do the simple and quicker rendering in the Revit. But both Sketch Up and AutoCAD needs to download other software to do the rendering work.

But now for me, I will still use Sketch Up to do the outlook draft drawing and use CAD to make detailed plan and section drawing because I am more familiar with that two software.

Now, I read some materials about the differences between Revit and other software. And the last week class study. I feel like I have some official differences between Revit and Auto CAD.

AutoCAD is a great Software to create basic geometry that represents real life, mostly for 2D and drawing of partly details. But the Revit is great for modeling, clash detection, and change management. It is a software for the whole construction process not only for the drawings. AutoCAD Supports a drafting workflow, where individual drawings are created and edited independently. But the Revit support a group people work together at the same time. And the Revit is not only having detail drawings like plan or elevation but also combination with all model, schedule, and other elements in whole work flow.

Sources:

http://www.autodesk.com/solutions/revit-vs-autocad

Ronald: (Link)

I think you had a great post about the advantages of the Revit. Especially for the Sequence, which I didn’t think about that before. The Revit is great that can have different information in different levels, and come with a work path for different steps also make that information visually. There is too much information in the construction process, it is important that the Revit provides some sequences of the information

Andrew:(Link)

I like your analysis about the disadvantages of the Revit/BIM is very comprehensive. Especially about the electrical engineer. I didn’t pay attention about that. It is correct that the electrical engineers only can put the symbols in the drawings which is the same thing they did in the CAD drawing. I think now one of the biggest disadvantages for the BIM/Revit is that the people are not familiar with it and still need a process to learn and get into it.

Arthur: (Link)

I like your analysis that the future program will include capabilities like structural calculations, HVAC flow calculations, electrical component sizing. Which will be very helpful for engineers to work with Revit. And one of my hope about Revit is that paperless. Which the Revit can be used on PC, Pad, Phone and all the equipment to save the paper and paper work time.  

Yuxiao Zhou - B3 - Group E

Revit Vs AutoCAD and others drawing software

The Revit and AutoCAD both can generate construction documents for the design, but Revit can create the documents through the working process and generate it automatically. In AutoCAD that you need to generate the document by the work done and manually. Also in AutoCAD the drawings and images based on basic geometry but in Revit that the model contains real-life information and can be easy to change. Revit is good for modeling, clash detection and change management and the AutoCAD is good for drawing precise line work.

I think the biggest difference between Revit and AutoCAD is work procedure. You can create each elements independently and combine all elements automatically, each element changes can directly responses to the model which can offer the users to change their design through the whole work process and easier to make difference design. But in AutoCAD, all works are independently and cannot combine them together. If users want to change their design, they need to change all elements to suit the new model manually which cost time and operate difficult, it also may generate error during this process. There are lots of model in Revit that users can use the model as simpler and start their work based on the simpler. This modeling function can save a lot of time and make the work easier. AutoCAD do not have the modeling function which means users need to start their work form beginning even if two model is similar. In my opinion, Revit can change any parts of model during the whole process, but for AutoCAD if make change during the work, it more like to start over the design. Revit is much intelligent than AutoCAD.

Google sketchup is a simple drawing software for quick drawings, but less for details. If users want to draw some initial quick view simple, Google sketchup is best choice.

In my opinion, Revit is good for use in designing process, because change can make easily and directly link to model, and users can start their work in one single model together. When the design is done, AutoCAD can be used for draw the model, because AutoCAD provides more details.      

Reference

Revit Vs AutoCAD (http://www.autodesk.com/solutions/revit-vs-autocad)

Comments
Lin Ziyang( https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-current-advantages-of-bim.html)
I totally agree with you for your points. BIM can improve the collaboration that is a huge advantage for everyone in the design team. Architects, Engineer, Contractor can work together in single model with details schedule and cost analysis, it save a lot of time than traditional design process.

Joe Dressel(https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/dressel-b3-group-c.html)
The BIM can generate sheet from the model automatically, it is much easier than AutoCAD. People can access the model and make change during anytime in design process. Schedule can be set up during the design process which traditional design must be wait until design finish. BIM is more and more popular, it also will have more intelligent functions.

Samuel Kim(https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/b3-group-d-week-3-samuel-kim.html)
Samuel, I agree with you that BIM can decrease the final cost. In traditional design process, contractor need to wait until the design finish. But in BIM, group members can access the model during anytime. Schedule and cost analysis can be made during design process and it also reduce the collaboration errors. BIM can make group members start their work at same time that means save a lot of time. Time is money, that is way the final cost is lower than before.    

Dressel - B3 - Group C

What are the possible future advantages of Revit/BIM?

When considering the possible future advantages of BIM, there are almost as many as the imagination can come up with. One of the more realistic ones, and one where we are already seeing BIM trend is towards building management. Once construction is completed, the owner is able to utilize the BIM files to more efficiently maintain the building.

It is also easy to see that as BIM becomes more popular, entire sets of building plans may be generated from BIM models. This makes sense due to how easy it is to make a sheet from a model. Schedules can easily be pulled from the model and also put into the sheets. Where this may develop even further is the reduction or elimination of paper plans from the job site. For example, I know from first hand experience, one of the companies that I worked for, all of the field engineers and superintendents were issued iPads. This enabled them to look at any drawing at any time anywhere in the field.

Another way I can see BIM being leveraged in the future is on the construction side. Since the entire building, including MEP and architectural finishes will be created in the model, this model could then be used to find a way to pre-assemble parts of the building off site. This would be done similar to pre-fab buildings, but could be done on a larger scale.


Sources:

http://blog.synchroltd.com/bim-where-is-it-headed

http://archinect.com/firms/release/67343028/why-bim-revit-are-the-future-of-digital-building-construction-industry/149960572


Comments:
Ziyang Lin: It becomes clearer what the future applications of BIM could be when looking at the current advantages of BIM. As you said in your point number 5, BIM already can create sheets and plans. Extrapolating this to the future use, it appears to mesh with my prediction that entire sets of plans could be genereated from a BIM model.

Paulina Gawor: I can certainly agree with the learning curve being a disadvantage for BIM. I have never used Revit before this class, and I definitely needed the video tutorials. I think it should be noted that for all of the disadvantages BIM has, I believe that they pale in comparison to the benefits and BIM will be used more and more in the future.

Andrew Ng: As with Paulina, I believe the benefits of BIM outweigh the disadvantages. However, it is good to know the limitations of the software. Also like Paulina, you pointed out one of the current problems is the lack of electrical support in the BIM software that needs to be addressed. 

Alsaleem B3 - GroupC Future advantages of Revit

What are the possible future advantages of Revit/BIM?

One huge possible future advantage of BIM and Revit is improving the collaboration with models, simplifying many functions to enable several users to adjust on a complex project models and manage combination with other members and editors all at once.

Another predicted possible future advantage is an increase of simulation tools that would allow for designers to visualize sunlight during different times of the year throughout different seasons which will help calculate building energy performances.

Codes are predicted to also be introduced strongly in Revit and BIM. Several government departments, fire departments and other officials may use these programs to introduce the codes, and an option or icon of reviewing codes on models building projects can see if the building violates any codes and suggest some solution.

Cost estimating features will also be built in BIM software estimating. Costs of materials chosen for the building, interior and exterior. Material quantities are automatically obtained and updated when any changes are made in the model creating a table with details, where material is used in addition to its price and cost, that will help designers reduce costs on point and come up with more solutions.

Finally, because building information models are created to scale in 3D space, all major systems can be instantly and automatically checked for interferences with other material. As an example, this tool can help verify that piping does not intersect with steel beams, ducts, or walls and if does it will show a warning to the user and create solutions to adjust and overcome the problem.

Sources:

https://redshift.autodesk.com/building-information-modeling-top-10-benefits-of-bim/

http://ascelibrary.org/doi/full/10.1061/(ASCE)LM.1943-5630.0000127

Responses to peers:

Kerianne Vogler: I used all three programs you referred too and I agree with most differences between them that you pointed out. I also agree that Revit is easier than Sketchup. I faced a problem using Sketchup that it did not generate a list of properties designed and Revit as you mentioned automatically did that.

David Sanchez: Your post was well written and very straight forward with great points of comparison between Revit and AutoCAD and SolidWorks. I never used SolidWorks so I cannot talk from my point of view about that, but AutoCAD I used a lot and I can agree that it lacks the use of 3D modeling and that’s a big point in favor of Revit. I enjoyed your post and benefited from it.

Zhijing Zheng: I read your post about the issues in Revit nowadays and how it causes some difficulties in the way of designers and engineers. Out of the 4 problems you pointed out I estimated that 2 of them will be fixed and added as future tools in Revit, that gives me an idea that it is probably obvious for the Software team that engineers and designers want and need these tools so hopefully they are already working on them.  

Yosep Bak - W3 - P3

Question: What are the possible future advantages of Revit/BIM?


 Revit and BIM now have countless applications that are unprecedented yet pragmatic for everyone; what was once considered the showcase for the big timers such as Louis Vuitton, BIM and Revit are used to create temporary housing for minimal cost. Honeycomb Village project is a prime example of BIM and Revit in action. This project is the opposite of New York Freedom Tower; in process of trimming excess and unnecessary expense to the barest minimum, The head architect Scott Know is on the verge of substantially mitigating housing issues for tens of thousands of people.

BIM and Revit's excellence in budget shaving does not limit them from expressing the fullest galore of modern engineering technology. Using BIM, SkyHouse Apartments was replicated and erected on 10 different cities across the united states. Designing one building for various different regions was made possible due to BIM. Rather than re-creating the whole another building with the same facade, engineers were able to adjust the different details on BIM. This significantly reduces production cost because this reduces work required by the engineers by tenfold.

BIM and Revit are not exclusively used in the construction process. Commercial high riser can benefit from BIM and Revit's ability to manage and display current state of the existing structure with a help from sensors. For example, Figure 1 displays Revit model drafted by Hilson Moran in London. This design of building allows usage of project information management real time.

Figure 1. Revit Draft of a Commercial High-Riser

Sources:

BIM in Low Cost and Temporary Housing

http://www.aecbytes.com/feature/2016/BIM-LowCostHousing.html 

Delivering on the Promise of BIM

http://www.aecbytes.com/viewpoint/2015/issue_76.html


Comments:

Arthur McCloskey: I still am not convinced that using Revit decreases the understanding behind architectural design or engineering. Revit aids prospective engineers to not only visualize what they are designing, but alter and manipulate the design to see how different variables affects the design with a click of a finger. I think this will aid, rather than deter the understanding.

Zhijing Zheng:  I can see how BIM is not a necessity in a short term and smaller scale projects. I never thought of a circumstance where BIM is not beneficiary but after reading your 1. Short Term Effects, it does make sense.

Ray Powell: In Yusuf Arayici and Sas Mihindu's list of  9 major benefits, you have paraphrased them into 6 broader categories. I think it is also very important to include the 4) better production quality. I emphasize quality because although you did mention better design, that doesn't always improve the quality of the intermittent and final production








 

B3 - Group C - Andy Dinh - Possible future advantages of Revit/BIM

As we have seen through the few weeks so far from in class discussion and through research of our own, we can gather many advantages that Revit and other BIM software can already offer. compared to the days of hand drawings, Revit and other software offer much more accessibility to designing buildings and other structures without the need of such practice. This helps streamline projects more and allow for better turnarounds on design. Such simple tasks like drawing a straight line is made a lot easy without the need for needing a tool to keep your pencil straight. In the early days there are certainly kinks that needed to be worked out, but seeing how the technology has developed thus far gives high hopes to what the future can hold.

Time, as noted before, is a key factor in the turnaround of projects. There are always deadlines to meet, and the development of BIM is certainly helping reach those deadlines at a much better rate. Coordination and collaboration is a part of this as well. I believe that through better accessibility, even for owners and facility mangers, information on the design of the building can get to those who need it in a much more proficient way with greater ease. Not only is collaboration between those involved is important, but coordination between the user and the program or software is as important. Revit can already detect clashes within the design itself between objects. With adapting AI that has started to get better over the years, these clashes could possibly be fixed without needed human interaction, or at least what the recommended solutions are given for a problem that the user might run in to. Such solutions are already being worked on like ClashMEP [1].

Another future advantage we can look into is cost analysis. This topic can cover a wide variety of items, such as lighting, materials, energy use, and other items that play into how much a structure costs. Being able to gather and display how much everything will cost will help eliminate costly components for more sustainable alternatives. Also, having developing technology in covering maintenance requirements, and with the possible development of AI building maintenance, this technology can help mitigate both short term and long term costs. Different solutions can help solve different problems, so being able to collect all these solutions together and compare them in a much more efficient manner can help push things along.

References:

[1] Calvert, Neil. "10 Points and the Benefits of BIM." VDC and BIM Construction Blog. Synchro Software, 12 Dec. 2013. Web. 30 Jan. 2017. <http://blog.synchroltd.com/10-points-and-the-benefits-of-bim>.

[2] Digital School Technical Design College. "Advantages of Revit's Building Information Modeling." Digital School. Autodesk, 17 Oct. 2016. Web. 30 Jan. 2017. <http://digitalschool.ca/advantages-of-revits-building-information-modeling/>.

[3] Zeiger, Mimi. "The Future of BIM." Architect. N.p., 11 Nov. 2008. Web. 30 Jan. 2017. <http://www.architectmagazine.com/technology/the-future-of-bim_o>.

Comments:

Arthur McCloskey (link): It was interesting being able to read your post and comparing what the other side thinks about Revit in the future. Your drawbacks that you posted certainly do have ground to it and make sense. We can already see how over reliant we are as a society on technology, even with technology outside of BIM like our evolving smartphones and social media and such. Hopefully, we can learn on how technology can help us innovate more rather than be hindered by it, but we will have to see what the future holds in store for us. Also, with ever evolving technology in most fields, I hope we have computers that can handle such demanding tasks from the software we use, but that depends on whether the computer or software has a leg up in development.

Zhijing Zheng (link): Seeing what current issues we have with BIM software was an insight into how it is perceived today. Many can say how much it has helped in a project, but some do not really give much on how it hinders certain aspects. The point that stood out to me from your post was about the cash flow involving the program. Seeing how fees are being lowered through the ease of what the program can provide is a little depressing. Hopefully there is a better demand for it later on that will increase interest, effectively increasing competitiveness and more proportional costs for the work demanded for.

Ray Powell (link): Reading your post about what current advantages we already have for BIM gives me more credence into what I hope to see for the future of BIM. BIM is advancing as much as it can, and being able to see how it has changed from my first involvement with it back in high school about 5 or 6 years ago, there is hope that BIM can stay on that track of rapid development or it may even evolve faster than the current rate it is going right now. It would be good to see the current advantages stay true in the future.

B3 - Revit and other softwares - Vogler Group E

Revit vs. AutoCAD and Sketchup

Revit and AutoCAD relate in many different ways. They can both generate construction documents with information regarding the job. Although, the documents generate automatically in Revit and in AutoCAD you have to create them yourself. You can create 3D models and objects in both Revit and AutoCAD, but it’s a lot simpler in Revit.

Revit can create a lifelike model, in which each entity contains information regarding it’s properties. These properties can assist in the generation of construction documents, schedules, and take-offs. In AutoCAD, basic geometry is used to generate images that represent real life. These drawings cannot assist in the automatic generation of construction documents.

In Revit there is one singular model that is used throughout the design process. With these model, all edits made in one view are translated into the other views and layouts. In AutoCAD the edits made in a drawings are not translated because the drawings do not work together. This makes Revit easier to collaborate.

Sketchup is used for quick and simple models. When you need something drawn up fast, Revit shouldn’t be your choice. It can be used for advanced settings but is a lot harder to do this than with Revit.

The biggest difference between Revit and Sketchup is the data that can come from Revit. The objects drawn in Revit automatically generates lists of properties drawn, and Sketchup cannot do this.

http://www.autodesk.com/solutions/revit-vs-autocad

http://archinect.com/forum/thread/108153171/sketchup-vs-revit

Comments:

Arthur:

I like that you mention the difficulties with grasping Revit after getting used to AutoCAD. I completely agree with this because going from using AutoCAD at work to using Revit for classes gets confusing. They are operated in completely different ways, even with their similarities.

https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/future-problems-with-revitbim-arthur.html

Ronald:

It’s crazy to see that BIM has increased in use by 160%. It’s becoming so popular that the impacts it will have in the future can seem daunting. Although with any use of software comes the cost of training. Even if a company uses a certain software, the amount of training that needs to happen for new employees or even keeping up with the updates, is similar to the amount you would need to train new people on BIM. As new softwares become available, the industry changes and requires specific standards. Starting now can only help with the future.

https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/assignment-b3-group-ronald-herazo.html

Brennan:

I agree that the use of BIM for multi-disciplinary projects is huge. Being able to tell how different systems are interacting in the model can assist significantly for the issues that may happen during construction. The benefits are incredible.

https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/b3-group-c-brennan-connolly.html

B3: Revit vs. Other Softwares - Sanchez - Group E

Revit vs. other CAD software

To begin this post, I have to admit that I have never used Revit before and have no knowledge of the software. As a business and engineering major, I have taken MEM 201 - Introduction to Computer Aided Design, which we used AutoCAD and Creo Parameter. I addition, I did take CAEE 202 - Introduction to Civil, Architectural, and Environmental Engineering, use to be CAEE 201, but they removed the Revit lab from the curriculum so I did not have the opportunity to use this software before this class. In our previous class, we had a brief discussion on how Revit relates to other drafting software. I decided to look at the differences between Revit vs. AutoCAD and Revit vs. AutoCAD.

Revit vs. AutoCAD

A quick comparison of Revit vs. SolidWorks will give you many similarities and differences:

• User base - Revit is mainly used by structural developers and designers while AutoCAD is used mainly by any 2D/3D designer or drafter.
• Scope & Discipline - Revit is mainly used by people in architecture and construction while AutoCAD is used for general designing and drafting (civil, mechanical, and architecture).
• Main use - Revit is mainly used for 2D sketching and 3D design and rendering while AutoCAD is mainly used for 2D design and documentation.
• Learning Curve - Revit is rated as average while AutoCAD is rated as low

Revit vs. SolidWorks

A quick comparison of Revit vs. SolidWorks will give you many similarities and differences:

• User base - Revit is used by architects, engineers, and designers but SolidWorks is used by engineers and designers.
• Collaboration Features - In Revit users are able to 2D to 3D CAD conversion, 3D printing but in SolidWorks users are unable to use this feature.
• In Revit users are unable to perform advanced surfacing features that users are allowed to use in SolidWorks.
• A similarity in the two software's is that users can do 2D and 3D drawings, parametric modeling, and photorealistic renderings are available in both.

Sources:

http://www.computeraideddesignguide.com/revit-vs-autocad-pros-cons/

http://cad.softwareinsider.com/compare/24-130/SolidWorks-vs-Revit

zhijing zheng - the current issue with Revit/BIM

"The Issues with REVIT"

Many of the points relate to working practices and habits entrenched within the industry and influenced by the major players who control how projects are developed. They are much bigger than software or hardware problems and much harder to solve, but that doesn’t make them any less real and in many ways it makes them much more fundamental to successfully integrating BIM within architectural practice in general and the construction industry as a whole.

There are four fundamental issues to the successful adoption of Revit in general and in a small architectural practice in particular

1. Short Term Effects

In a marketplace where architectural fees are often cut to the bone and more often than not pushed back and concentrated within the construction phase of projects, this is totally opposed to the pressures exerted by a BIM process, which seeks as much and as detailed information to be decided upon and incorporated within the BIM as early in the process as possible.

The reality is ever growing pressures to minimize the time and expense of producing information at the early project stages, cutting corners and producing wafer thin information – the bare minimum to suffice at every stage of the project. This is hampering BIM absorption within practices, which in itself are making the construction industry in general and the profession in particular less and less efficient. 

2. Cash Flow

Architectural practices are being operated on shoestring budgets in this climate and as such there is no leeway for putting in more effort ahead of the reward on the basis that it will be more efficient for the project as a whole. This is as a result of crippling competition on fees and the resulting low percentage fees being earned on projects. The result – practices forced to work in an inefficient manner to sculpt their effort to match the fee payment stages, as mentioned above, often geared to focus on the later stages of the project where the contractor, not the developer, will pick up the ultimate bill.

3. Technical Infrastructure

This is a very real and growing problem to the adoption of BIM and the take up and development of the use of Revit. The demands placed upon small practices by Software giants such as Autodesk are out of proportion with the returns their products can deliver in the short term. Firstly there is the ever-growing demand on hardware placed by their burgeoning programmed and ever growing packages of products that they insist on bundling together. The raw demands of each new version on storage and processing power is inevitable and at least to a great extent offset by the ever cheaper relative cost of hardware. In addition, particularly with products like Revit which do not permit the “save as last years product” option

4. Opportunities

This is perhaps the most personal and anecdotal of the issues, but we as a firm have found an intense disinterest on the part of medium sized contracting organizations to being involved in construction projects utilizing BIM to ensure that it is run more efficiently.

http://www.augiuk.co.uk/index.php/articles/17-articles/31-the-problem-with-revit

Comments:

Maria Raggousis

In maria's post, she talked about the technical issue for using Revit/BIM such as little capability without making new models and can't incorporated the MEP models. All that are technical issues for current condition. However, in order to evaluate software such as Revit/BIM, it is better look at the big picture. All the software have their own shortcoming. There is no software can solve all the issues under current condition. Therefore, in order to better assess Revit/BIM, we need to consider the entire society distribution and the benefits. The current issue with Revit/BIM can be analysis according to the owner's perspective and client's perspectives.

https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/week-3-class-discussion-group-b-current.html

Ronald Herazo

In Ronald's post, he talked about the future possible problems. In order to analyze the future potential issue with implementation of Revit/BIM, he described the current issue that more and more demand requirement from different industries such as contractors. And then transfer to the future issue such as large scale of upgrading the system and corresponding high cost. Of course, in order to meet the demands, Revit/BIM need to self-development to satisfy the clients. Otherwise, they will loss their potential business. Therefore, the future problem can be the massive and large scale technical interfacing issues.

https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/assignment-b3-group-ronald-herazo.html

Brennan Connolly

In Brennan's post, he mentioned the potential future advantages of BIM and Revit such as how Revit could show the attractive way of the building and surrounding to the clients. Also, BIM program can detect where clashes occur and point them out. Like a said in above comments, it is better connect the techniques to the business. How Revit/BIM benefit the population and the society. It is more tangible to show same data how Revit/BIM will influence the really project.

https://ae-410-510-ay16-17.blogspot.com/2017/01/b3-group-c-brennan-connolly.html